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September 04, 2003

Mac Diva Dissed

Every once in a while, it's interesting to see the kind of bullshit intelligent black women have to put up with. If you have an occasion to enjoy racial archeology, there's a fresh dig over at Blogcritics.

Check it out before they start deleting stuff and issuing ass-backwards apologies.

UPDATE: Also read this thread on the meta fallout. Especially comment #104.

Posted by mbowen at September 4, 2003 10:16 PM

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Since you came to visit me, I thought I'd return the favor.

Intersting feces storm. I'm still reading it.

Posted by: Juliette at September 5, 2003 04:00 PM

Cobb, you're a bit late getting into this ongoing foodfight, so let me recap what I understand the situation to be: I had this fairly mild "Colorless Friends" post about how I found the Friends show bland, and also that I thought it was silly for black folk to get so pissy as some seem to over the lack of any black Friend.

Soon, Miss Diva was hysterical and hostile, having some kind of hysterical spazz attack in my comments section pretty much out of the blue. She's quitting us, and she's going to try to fuck up our primary business relationship. She's calling me, among the more charming things, a white supremicist and a stupid bigot.

I responded to that with this original "Happy Hate Crimes :)" post, which is FAR milder in tone than the things she's saying. Note that I responded to defend the specific posts that she cited as evidence of my wickedness.

Also, I didn't just make up slanderous lies about her out of the blue. I would argue that this post is fairly gentle good humor in response to pretty strong hostile provocation.

In short, the Al/Diva conversation model goes like this:

Al: Hello Mac Diva, nice day out, isn't it?


Cobb, it seems that somehow you look at it and consider ME to be the goat. How figure?

Also, there will be nothing deleted from the original stories, not ones with my names on the top anyhow. I'll stand on my written words before the throne of God.

Posted by: Al Barger at September 6, 2003 02:38 AM

i'm sure there are people at blogcritics that have never offended macdiva. you're just not one of them. i'm certain the converse is true. the specifics of the argument, whether or not somebody is offended past their tolerance is a symptom of a deeper problem. from what i can see, macdiva has returned and not scribbled.

so that simply leaves the deeper problem, that of neo-confederacy. i would ask simply you to explain why blacks are not supportive of these neo-confederates. and we'd get to that subject as the diva has posted on her site. i think unpacking white identity from neo-confederate support is a great deal trickier than undoing a flamewar.

i believe that as both of you stick to your principles you and others will be able to recognize the critical distance. i'd be interested in seeing the results. if you own up to being white and own up to being neo-confederate and you feel comfortable with all that, then i don't see why you should be uncomfortable with the namecalling.

what i'm suggesting is a scale:


and maybe being white and neoconfederate puts you at 7 and being macdiva whatever she chooses to represent puts her at 4. you can't complain about being called a 9 if you can't name what goes between 4 and 7. macdiva at any rate may never split the difference. anything over 6 is unacceptable to her.

right now you two seem to be playing a binary game.

what i do in the race man's home companion is ask whitefolks to describe the difference between the white in them and the white in white supremacy. as far as i can see that's the only way to deal with the subject. that doesn't mean of necessity one is going to satisfy the harshest critics, but a logical explanation is far better than "no i'm not a racist, why is she lying about me?"

i bet you a nickel if you asked macdiva what it means to her to be a black woman you'll get a book. if she asks you what it means to you to be a white man and you just say "duh, i just am, what's wrong with that?"... well, there's something wrong with that.

Posted by: Cobb at September 6, 2003 10:10 AM

describe the difference between the white in them and the white in white supremacy

Jebus Criminy, man, what kind of loaded assumptions have you got built into this question? How about if I turned the question exactly back to you? Describe the difference between the black in you and the black in black supremacy.

Simple answer: Recognizing that I am of caucasian heritage does not mean at all that I consider myself superior or supreme. As an American, indeed I have mostly the same cultural background as you or Ms Diva, and some different. We all watched the Cosby show, no doubt. On the other hand, perhaps you grew up hearing more Miles Davis records, whereas I heard more Bill Monroe. Totally cool. It's all good. Mostly, we're ALL lucky (not necessarily superior or supreme) to have been born Americans.

In the wise words of Aunt Eller (Rodgers and Hammerstein) as she negotiated peace between the "Farmer and the Cowman":
I'm not saying that I'm better than anybody else
But I'll be danged if I ain't just as good

I'm still having trouble understanding how you could somehow NOT see that I have tried to discuss our differences in a friendly and civil manner, while she has gone absolutely apeshit for very little or no reason.

And exactly what would be wrong with me not being so obsessed with my racial identity as to be ready to spew out a book about it at the drop of a hat?

And SCREW that nonsense about how I'm supposedly a "neo-confederate." That's HER label, not mine, and a good example of why I hold her in low regard. I refuse the label. It amounts to a cheap smear based on a completely illegitimate package deal. That is, anyone who does not just exactly and precisely hold the "correct" and simplistic reactionary opinion that Lincoln/Union=GOOD while Confederacy=BAD in all things must be a "neo-Confederate," ie an evil racist.

In short, thinking that the South got screwed does not mean support for slavery.

Posted by: Al Barger at September 6, 2003 04:40 PM

the loaded assumption i have is that blacks have undergone a revolution of self-consciousness in order to avoid being part of their own racial victimization. they used their minds to think their way out of racial victimology. it worked. and there's nothing genetic about it. whitefolks who want to avoid being racially stereotyped must undergo a similar revolution of self-consciousness because all humans are the same, and because there is no reward without work.

the answer to your question is also a book, conveniently stored in web form well, blog form.

if you find no reason to defend neo-confederates, cool. maybe the diva's charge is overwrought. maybe she'll come here, as neutral ground and y'all can work it out. that would be very cool.

i was parsing your specific debates only at a fairly high level because i've got a lot of experience in trying to facilitate black & white discussion on the internet. i didn't start off with that as a goal in mind, but it turned out to be a compelling subject. i've had a gripe with the diva myself (over mutual blogrolling). so i'm not suggesting that she can't be dramatic - she better than anyone should know why she continues to call herself a diva...

i've got to go right now. more later..

Posted by: Cobb at September 6, 2003 05:32 PM


If you can't see why someone who is black gets a little pissed off with someone who claims that Confederacy was not all bad, then you need some help. I am in no way calling you a racist but to any sane black person the Confederacy was , or should be, considered a bad thing. And yes, I just said what black people SHOULD believe. Pluralism only goes so far in some areas. Consider this cliche: the Nazi regime has some good qualities, at least they brought Germany out of the Depression. The evil that the Nazi's did far outways ANYTHING they did bad. That the Confederate States went to war in order to preserve the institution of slavery negates ANYTHING you can name that was good about it.

Posted by: walter at September 7, 2003 02:06 AM